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American sympathies on Polish side regarding border crisis: interview

In an exclusive interview for Poland’s public broadcaster TVP, Slavist at the Rice University, Houston, Professor Ewa Thomspon said that with some initial hostility towards the Polish government, now articles in the US press covering the crisis on the Polish-Belarusian border were leaning more towards objectivity.

What do Americans know about the situation at the Polish-Belarusian border?

At this point, quite a bit. When the crisis began, the periodicals I regularly read did not provide any information about the situation. But eventually, the NYTimes and other dailies, National Public Radio texts and the British Guardian began to pay attention. Depending on the authorship of these articles, the spin varies. For instance, Andrew Higgins in the NYT seems to have striven for objectivity, whereas Monika Pronczuk’s articles in the same paper seem to have had a double purpose: to inform and to make sure that the present legitimately elected Polish government is presented in a bad light.

There was one week when practically in every issue of the NYT and other papers there appeared articles on the situation at the Polish-Belarusian border. The following day these articles made their way to local papers. However, in recent days [the interview was conducted on November 20, 2021], the frequency of such articles subsided.

In spite of the fact that some articles seem to have been permeated with hostility to the Polish state, the American public received the message that Poland defends its borders, which also are the borders of the European Union. Generally speaking, Americans understand the need for self-defence and tend to look with sympathy at those nations that can stand up for themselves. In my judgment, American sympathies are now on the Polish side. I also have the impression that the most recent articles are more objective than the earlier ones. It would be difficult to find in them reasons to accuse Poland of improper actions at the border. One exception is Anne Applebaum’s article “A Dictator Is Exploiting These Human Beings” in the Atlantic, published on November 13, 2021. Ms. Applebaum apparently decided to use the opportunity to once more attack the allegedly extreme-right wing party in power, led by Jaroslaw Kaczynski. Yet given her family connection to the “total opposition,” she should probably abstain from writing on topics which involve her self-interest.

What kind of criticism of the Polish government can be seen in the American press?

Perhaps the most prominent one is the barring of foreign and Polish journalists from areas where the hybrid war is conducted. But this seems appropriate: the presence of nonmilitary personnel would require security measures that the Polish border guards simply cannot offer in conditions of hybrid warfare. The opposition party and its supporters also convey to American reporters their desire to let everyone that storms the Polish border in. My impression is however that Americans understand that this is a utopian demand. This attempt of the hostile “total opposition” to discredit the present conservative government on the basis of its actions at the border has failed. Americans understand that this is not simply an attempt by refugees to find shelter in the EU.

President Aleksandr Lukashenka’s assurances about the migrants do not sound convincing. He claims that these economic migrants came to Belarus on their own, without the approval and collaboration of the Belarusian (and ultimately Russian) government. There are numerous proofs that this is not so. Security cameras on the Polish side showed Belarusian guard giving wire cutters to the migrants and physically pushing them toward the border fence. The migrants are being used as cannon fodder.

Born in Kowno on August 23, 1937, Ewa M. Thompson is a literature and comparative literature professor, and a Slavist at Rice University in Houston. She graduated from the Department of Russian studies of the University of Warsaw. At Vanderbilt University, she defended her PhD thesis in comparative literature. She became a professor at the University of Virginia (1973-1974) and later at Rice University.

She published many articles on literature and political sciences, including The Washington Times, Slavic and East European Journal, Modern Age, Slavic Review and Houston Chronicle. She is an editor of the Sarmatian Review and a member of the Polish Scientific Society Abroad.

In 2015, she received the Society’s award. Whereas in 2020, she received the Transatlantic Award from Poland’s Book Institute.

“President Aleksandr Lukashenka’s assurances about the migrants do not sound convincing. He claims that these economic migrants came to Belarus on their own, without approval and collaboration of the Belarusian (and ultimately Russian) government. There are numerous proofs that this is not so,” said Ms Thompson. Photo: EPA/BELARUSIAN PRESIDENT PRESS SERVICE

Are Western media aware of these details? Do they know about other provocations used by Belarusian border guards, such as blinding Polish guards with lasers and flashlights?

Yes, such details do appear in the news. But, as it often happens in summaries of military events, it is not always clear how such exchanges are initiated. That is to say, in the narrative there appear water cannons, lasers, stones—but an average reader may be a bit confused as to who uses what weapons. I think however, that such details are not of primary importance. The important thing is that to blame the Polish government for these signs of Belarusian (and ultimately Russian) hybrid aggression is simply absurd, and an average reader or listener will most likely sympathize with the country that is attacked rather than with the attackers.

In the meantime, the European Commission has announced that Belarus will receive 700,000 euros to help them assist the migrants. Does that mean that Lukashenka’s narration about refugees fleeing persecution has been accepted by EU?

The EU elites are too well informed to believe in Belarusian fairy tales. In my opinion, these funds are an expression of fear: EU leaders do not want Lukashenka to keep facilitating third-world migration to Western Europe. I rather doubt that only charity is involved here. The deeper reason is the desire to stop migration to Western Europe. An example of cold calculation.

How much do Americans know about Poland?

Not much. I have long wondered why Poles have not been able to create a chain of communication, of the kind Ukrainians created so quickly. Especially that the Ukrainian starting point was much less advantageous than that of the Poles. Yet Ukrainians have been able to strive for positions in American society that make them able to communicate their concerns to the politically important circles. Many years ago, when I traveled to Washington to participate in various scholarly panels, I noted that some of these panels were headed by American citizens with strong Ukrainian roots.

I have not encountered a similar situation regarding Poles. It rarely happens that someone with strong Polish roots helps another person who understands Polish affairs to participate in a project, an institution, a panel that is engaged in significant work. Poles and Polish Americans tend to act alone and often quarrel with each other. Such quarrels are unimaginable among the Ukrainians, who stand up for Ukrainian interests even if they disagree on a personal level. They have created a line of communication that provides knowledge about Ukraine to the broader American public and to politically important circles. No such channel exists for the Poles.
How have American media reacted to other matters concerning Poland, for instance, to tensions between Poland and the leadership of the European Union?

The standard response has been: democracy is endangered in Poland; Poland and Hungary do not observe democratic rules. But the details of such disagreements are missing. There are quite a few journalists who “specialize” in criticizing Poland. It is as if a silent agreement had been reached about it.

What do you mean?

I have the impression that some journalists behave as if they were compelled to use certain words. I have in mind certain phrases that allegedly show that “Poland” means “problems with democracy.” I do not see such routine usages regarding Ukraine where problems are mounting. But you will never learn about them from the American media.

“EU leaders do not want Lukashenka to keep facilitating third-world migration to Western Europe,” said Ms Thompson. Photo: PAP arch.

Is this related to Ukrainian ability to create those channels of communication we spoke about earlier, or is it something else? Is this the problem of the national elites?

There are multiple reasons. The elites are one of them. The Ukrainian elites tend to come from the same background, whereas Polish elites come from two conflicting sides: one is the traditional Polish patriotic intelligentsia, and the other, the elites created by the communist rulers of Poland between 1945-1990. These people are not necessarily communists now, but they learned from their communist masters servility to foreigners and contempt for Polish national interests. Especially if they are showered by grants, stipends and such by their rich neighbors.

There also is a problem of sensitivity to criticism. It is easy to insult a Pole; he/she then withdraws and ceases to participate. Ukrainians do not behave that way. They are capable of enduring all kinds of situations. If you insult a Pole, he/she most likely will quit. If you insult a Ukrainian, he will stay and will not surrender.

What about historical knowledge about Poland? In Western media one occasionally sees expressions such as “Polish concentration camps.” There was a period in the Polish public debate when the so-called Bill 447 was being discussed. Any echoes of this in America?

This second issue has barely been noted by the American media. Such matters are usually settled through diplomatic channels. So far as the image of Poland in World War 2 is concerned, it seems to me that the absurdist propaganda (probably conceived in Moscow) about Poland’s alleged sympathy for Hitler is no longer in circulation. Such narration is so absurd that not much knowledge or wisdom is required to contest it. I do not think an average American is susceptible to it.

This does not mean that Polish experiences in World War 2 are universally known. I am afraid that the time when such knowledge could have been imparted has already passed. If today someone tries to tell the story of Polish sufferings during the years of Soviet-Nazi friendship (1939-1941) or during the years when Germans and Russians fought against each other (1941-1945)—such a person meets with incredulity that such topic is even mentioned. To many persons alive today, it is prehistory, irrelevant to the present situation. Such is the state of affairs today. Although of course facts are on the Polish side.

For an American interested in foreign affairs, Poland today is primarily seen as an EU member. Even if there are internal quarrels there, Poland is part of EU. This is advantageous for Poland, and also for some eight million Americans of Polish background. I remember the 1960s when I was in school and Poland was under Soviet occupation: Polish Americans suffered because of it. There were cases of discrimination: Americans of Polish background were considered to be related to the Moscow empire hostile to the United States. This kind of bias does not exist today.

For many years you have worked at American universities, primarily at Rice University. What do American students know about Poland and about East Central Europe?

Very little. In my view, the situation is worse than 40-50 years ago, when I was beginning my scholarly career. In the 1970s there were several chairs of Polish Studies at leading American universities; they were occupied by internationally known scholars. Today, these chairs have either been liquidated or redirected into topics tangentially related to Poland: film, for instance, or the latest trends in hermeneutics. Yet before such secondary subject, there should come familiarity with the Polish cultural codes. If such codes are mentioned at all, they are criticized rather than presented in an sympathetic light. In a 1985 article, Michael Mikos noted that at about the same time, Polish parochial schools were being phased out (“The History of Teaching Polish in the United States,” Polish Review, vol. 30, no. 4).

But there are signs of hope. Polish individualism did succeed in creating certain channels through which knowledge about Poland seeps into American society. Here in Houston, in addition to Rice University there also exists University of Saint Thomas which has recently launched the John Paul II Institute. In addition to philosophical topics, the Institute offers courses in Polish language, history, and literature. While Catholic universities are not typical of what is being taught in America, who says that in the future they will not become leaders?

There are other places like that. The John Paul II Institute also exists at the Catholic University of American in Washington, DC. There are Polish clubs, both secular and Church-oriented, what teach Polish and organize discussions on Polish subjects.

Thus in spite of almost total disappearance from America’s higher education of what Poland represented in history, Polish topics refuse to be dropped in the memory hole. They return in unpredictable ways. Twenty years ago I was pessimistic about the chances of Polish discourse to break through the barrier of indifference and rancor. History, as we know, is written by winners. But now Poland is a winner, or at least on the road to becoming a winner. I am much more optimistic today than I was twenty years ago. Things Polish begin to be important again. So the situation is not all bad, although of course it could be much better.

Why were chairs of Polish literature and history liquidated?

Often they were not liquidated in the literal sense. Let me give you an example. As is well known, since the illness and death of Professor Stanislaw Baranczak (who occupied the chair of Polish literature at Harvard), Harvard University has not been able to find an appropriate scholar for the Polish chair. When Baranczak was hired in the early 1980s, there was no official knowledge that his voice problems would soon cut his lecturing career short. Since Professor Baranczak’s health-related leave and then demise, Harvard University has been unable to find a recognized and tenured scholar worthy of assuming the Polish chair.

Interview conducted by Łukasz Lubanski

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